As I’m getting ready to write the final assignment for PDEng25, I am realizing that, yet again, I have learned almost nothing from the 30 hours I (supposedly) spent on PDEng this co-op term.

What did I learn?
I learned the elements of a needs assessment. It was a very valuable thing to learn, because now, whenever I am given an RFP, I can go through an actual process to come up with a defensible proposal.

What did I not learn?
The whole purpose of PDEng25 was to improve critical analysis skills. Did it do that for me? Firstly, I don’t think such skills can be improved through an online course such as PDEng, but regardless, I don’t think my critical analysis skills have changed at all as a result of PDEng25, whose entire focus was applied critical analysis. To me, it just seems like they’re trying to re-teach the same skills I gained in grade 12 English class in a 30-hour course. You need a full-fledged course on Critical Analysis, not one that is interlaced between lots more hours of work.

To conclude, I think PDEng should be teaching practical, useful concepts that are encountered in the workplace, including ethical issues – I think ethical issues are an important topic that every PDEng course should cover, and to be honest, PDEng25 did not cover such issues at all. In fact, it was worse than PDEng15 in that aspect. Anyway, what I learned from PDEng25 about RFPs and needs assessments will likely be the most useful knowledge for me going forward, so I think the course should teach that, and test us on that, and not on Creative Rhetoric And Posturing (a.k.a. Critical Analysis).

Best regards,
Dan

I am a student of the grad year,2010, and surprise surprise, a welcoming course awaited us in our co-op term – PDEng.
The name sounds professional and thats what we expected, a course to put forward values of professionalism and maturity in its students. Beckon the light of a true Engineer and god knows what else. Unfortunately , not so.

For most of co called Frosh like me, this course is a wate of time. No one knows about Senate and gladly dont care. Most have come from all over the country, to study in UW to become an engineer, nothing more, nothing less. Professional development is imperative, but it holds less value after a 8-10 hr work shift when you cook your own meals and sleep becomes your passion.Many students did not even get a co-op job, yet they were supposed to be more “Professional” after this course, appreciating hard work, unfortunately that did not happen either.

Some love to study, spend time working on PDEng, cudos to all of them, but most woudl rather relax a bit after their work, because they have something called personal life.We dedicate outselves in study during our study term, but spending the 3-4 hours after work on some online course, that doesnt hold much engineering spice, sorry to say wont have many supporters. As you might have seen, there have been no petetions for PDEng, and no petetions against the site thats supporting the movent of PDEng Sucks. For a UW Engineer, tools and gears hold pride, not reading blogs of some fictional student nor determining what kind of animal they are, or would like to work with.

Thanks for bearing with me and I gladly hope the course is abolished if not now, but in recent future, because frankly it has a few fans.

Regards

Sean Collins

Case in point: If I heard a racist joke at work, the university wants me to tell the joke teller that I was offended by it and then file a complaint with HR. Either of these cases are unrealistic and will sabotage any chance of me developing any sort of workplace camaraderie. It would create animosity between everyone else and me. My suggestion of you laugh it off because the co-worker’s not going to start the Fourth Reich (not phrased that way explicitly) was rejected by the university. I had to redo the assignment, give the “right” answer, then do a make-up assignment for submitting what I would’ve thought to be the real life answer. Sure, we can all be politically correct (PC) in life, but when it comes down to it, you can be PC and get snubbed by co-workers, or you can do what is socially acceptable and as a result, be accepted by one’s peers.

This is but one of the situations where the university will never condone. They will not actively teach you to laugh off racist jokes, but that is the reality of today’s society. They would get severly reprimanded if they condoned this type of response, but in the workplace, that is what is expected. Therefore, because PDEng has to teach you the PC way, it’s actually teaching you the wrong way.

Right now I’ve forgotten all the P.Eng requirements from Module 2. If I choose to become a P.Eng and take the exams, I will be confident that the university, by the end of my five year tenure, will give me the majority of the work experience I required. I will then actively pursue a P.Eng certification on my own. At this point, I don’t even know if I want that certification, so why would it be thrust upon me to learn? I know, I know. Why am I in an Engineering program if I don’t want to become a P.Eng? I don’t know. I can’t justify my choices in this respect. I say this though, I will do what I need to do, when I am ready to do it, and by that time, everything I “learned” from PDEng will have been buried underneath the mass media saturation from FOX and MTV.

Regardless of anything being beneficial to me in “workplace situations” and “P.Eng qualifications”, I honestly and truthfully believe I can do it on my own without the university’s help. I really want to be able to go on a workterm, work a 9-5 shift (with or without overtime) and then go home and relax. I want to go out with friends, go for a walk, and if I want to do anything academic, I can learn a language – on a Wednesday night. I don’t want to be huddled at my computer after 8 hours of being huddled in front of a computer typing away at responses that I morally and personally disagree with, only to get a passing mark and then moving onto the next brainless assignment.

I believe that I have developed my own set of morals and ethics through real life experiences and that if faced with an ethical / moral decision in the work place or on a P.Eng exam, I will know the right thing to do. Not because of some online course, but because I am confident in my judgement abilities as an adult and a human being.

I never even considered that they would be doing the program because we are younger. I’ve never heard that even given as a reason for PDEng’s implimentation. I mentioned that I believe PDEng 15 was worthless for both of us. The same details you described apply to me as well. On reading the descriptions of the later PDEng courses I believe somewhere, mixed in with stuff that I don’t need to know, there will be a few things that will be benificial.

As I mentioned, an appeal was launched to make PDEng non-mandatory. A link to the ruling can be found here. The senate won’t be considering something they’ve already ruled on. While your last comment may be a little pessimistic, you must see that there is the possibility of something small coming from the courses. If even one activity helps you work through an ethical dilema that appears on the P.Eng exam, then it was worth it. We will just have to suck it up and hope that it wasn’t as bad as 15. There are many courses I hate to take, but they are mandatory and I do them. PDEng should be viewed the same way.

(Still no one has told me what was written on the Software forum…)

I’ve known what type of people that I like to be with in a team. I know what part of a team I am. I don’t need an animal representing me. We’ve all had bad groups in high school where we just want to axe the person that does no work. Experiences like this refine our abilities to work with other people. It evolves us the ability to discern which individuals will complement our learning strategies. These CANNOT be taught by a book and will never be taught accordingly.

Ah, the simplicity and accuracy of good ‘ol trial and error.

I guess the best outcome I’d settle for would be to make this non-mandatory for the class of 2009. But we both know that’s not going to happen. We’re going to have to toil upwards of 300 hours over the next five work terms. 300 hours spent writing retarded articles and responding to equally as retarded characters in blogs. There is NO way that this program can be fixed to accomplish what it originally set out to do.

Now who’s the pessimist?

I think, secretly, a lot more folks than admit it would like to see PDEng cancelled completely… but it simply is quite obvious that that’s not happening. The school has already invested in it; they’ve advertised it to alumni, employers, and in the Dimensions newletter. Some of that hype may even turn into licensing the content and system to other schools.

So it’s not just going to disappear.

What’s the second-best approach? Rather than ask for cancellation (which will be ignored), identify specific problem-areas and try to deal with them. I tried to help out with the logs this past term. And in the coming term, I’m going to try to submit my assignments directly to the Mentors’ office in CPH rather than through the system. Others have identified MacGregor as being herself the source of some issues.

I really don’t know what (if anything) has changed, so I can’t comment on how much good my various effort have been/will be. But at least I’ve tried… and so have you, in a different sort of way.

I must say that I find you a very intriguing character. You are obviously very intelligent and gifted. The way you conduct yourself IS very professional and I’ve very glad that you found my site and were willing to continue this conversation with us. Blogs are meant to be discourse indusing, not broadcasting.

I didn’t think I implied that you censored your name at all, I in no way meant to show disrespect to you or imply anything of the sort. The opinion I expressed in my blog was on criticizing the actual petition. As you may note that I mentioned some of the credibility issues in the original petition (which I might add that you have mostly fixed). Unfortunatly you have not been able to see the discussions on my class forum where we have debated these issues for months. I personally had a great deal of reason to hate PDEng myself. I didn’t learn anything. I had my work report done before those assignments even came up (And got Outstanding I might add) and was accused of an academic offence because of same IP address with my roommate (which I was later proven innocent of..after being declared guilty). So I too have not been pleased with PDEng.

Just because I don’t believe that the program has yet helped me do I believe that it should be cancelled. That is the conflict we are having, and where our opinions differ. I have been working (as many others) with MacGregor to attempt to improve PDEng, and yes, changes HAVE happened. It takes time, but it is getting better. While the lessons are useless to me at this time, later lessons on ethical situations will be extreamly useful while preparing for your P.Eng tests.

You comment implies that I have done nothing myself to try to improve PDEng, and talk to fellow classmates. That is quite the contrary. I have been explaining to my entire class the benifits of it (many won’t be until later, though my experience is many people NEED them now). I have been in email correspondance with a few incoming MTE ‘10 students and have discussed PDEng with them. I’m sorry that a similar discussion has not occured on your forum, but I can ensure you that many of my fellow students and I have been working to improve PDEng from the inside while keeping our class informed. (Example: Mike was on a team of students working to improve the nasty blogs)

I don’t think you or I benifited from PDEng 15. That said, that doesn’t mean we won’t benifit from 25,35,45 or 55. It’s unfortunate that we were the first class and are the ones being hit by all these problems, but my experience with the administration is that they are genuinely attempting to fix it. The points listen on your petition ARE being addressed, as I have witnessed them myself. PDEng should not be cancelled (again, my opinion) and I’m quite confident that it will not be.

Oh, I missed the “scarred” domain comment. This is how I view it. I personally would never host such a petition on my domain, as I believe that it may have negative consequences. I may be wrong (because I’ve never done it), but I’d rather not take the risk. You are a very bold and charismatic character to go through with it realizing that it may have negative effects, or may produce positive effects. It’s a matter of ideals. I believe you lean to the optimistic side of beliefs, while I lean to the pragmatic side. Just a difference in personal philosophies I believe. (BTW, I will be checking out your portfolio, as you seem like a very bright man who will have interesting stuff to view)

Oh, thank you for the website comment. Lots of the credit goes to Mike though. Feel free to email me anytime. (Email link on my name at the bottom of any page)

P.S. It seems I’m getting incoming links from the Software Engineering Forum, I’d be interested to view the posts about me and my site.