Thu 15 Jun 2006
Now..it’s been a plain week with nothing really standing out. In my attempt to make it pass faster, I came across a forum that was having a discussion about gravity. The initial post drew me in on it’s grand ignorance and following discussion. Generally I found that many of the rebutters themselves really had no idea about gravity and just tossed the formula for Universal Gravity around. I did post two posts, one addressing the theory of gravity and another addessing the shape of orbits. And yes…I did register at a forum for the goal of adding my comment…usually I don’t, but the question “how do you evolutionsts explain gravity???” sealed the deal…heh.
The forum in question is called “Christian Forums” and has a wide range of topics being discussed. My first impression and from quick reading of a few posts is that it had several intellectual people who actually enjoyed discussing religion and were from a wide range of denominations. It seemed that several prominant posters were familiar enough with scripture to quote passages of the Bible as proof and I felt it was a breath of fresh air in the constant debate I usually witness of “Christians” who don’t truly know the doctrine that they are professing, but just spewing opinions that they’ve been conditioned to have.
This opinion changed when I began to search a little more. My initial goal was to post 5 posts so that I might be able to send a IM message to one of the members (due to a forum administration rule). I just wanted to have a discussion about one of the comments I saw on the Gravity thread, and set off in my goal to find 5 places to post something interesting to me. Two of them landed in the Gravity forum, two in threads that amounted to nothing in the end, but one landed in a thread about Nontrinitarianism. Nontrinitarianism is a non-belief in the Holy Trinity. I posted a comment about how there are Christian groups who are nontrinitarian, such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormans). Immediately it was commented that it is heretical and that “the LDS church is not Christian - contrary to their assertions.” They went further to distance themselves and affirm that Christians are only Christians if they believe in the Trinity.
Despite a rule about specific types of flaming, specifically “Stating or implying that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian”, the thread members immediately dismissed the beliefs of large groups of self professing Christians. I found it very appauling their comments. There posters are so close minded that only their own denominations can gain any acceptance. I can only see this as driving people away from the Church. They went as far as saying it’s a cult and they would go to Hell…how accepting of different beliefs (from fellow Christians!). They can’t even accept their own, how are they going to accept others.
This is exactly the reason I left the Church. I can not put up with the bigotry and close mindedness. The ignorance and foolishness. From bickering over theological differences to “defending” the “morals” of the general population, it’s unbearable. I gave the Church a chance, but it is impossible to defend something you don’t believe in anymore. Faith got me nowhere except the depths of dissapointment. Fundementalists have little respect because they don’t respect others. It’s such a pretentious name they give themselves, implying that they hold the key to the fundementals of life. It’s just as bad as Neoconservatives masquarading as Libertarians. They use the true nature of something and warp it into whatever they want it to say. Christianity was not founded on the principles of bigotry and hatred fundementalists propagate.
I do wonder what exactly is different about “Christian Safe Search” on their homepage is…I hope it doesn’t so any other filtering other than regular Google filtering…
Currently Listening to: Roxanne - Sting and the Police
Random Wikipedia Article:Triumph of the Will
June 15th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Well, I hate to join the chorus of bigotry, but I think it’s fair that as part of identifying oneself as part of a group, you can identify what factors make you a part of it.
Myself, I say my own Christianity is from a) a belief that the Bible is the only word of God, b) that I’m a sinner and only Christ’s resurrection can remedy that. Additionally, I believe that the Nicene creed represents an accurate summary of my faith, as interpreted from scripture.
And I’d consider any other person a Christian who believes more or less those same things. That broad definition encompasses pretty much all the Catholic, Protestant and Eastern traditions. It does, however, exclude the Mormons, who do not accept the creeds, and consider the Book of Mormon (among other things) to be on a level with the Bible.
I won’t deny that there are a lot of pretty wacky religious discussion forums on the web, but I think you’d find non-Mormon Christians pretty much unanimous in considering the Mormons a cult.
June 18th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
Jeff, that Gravity thread makes my head hurt
Thank you. It’s really disturbing that someone with enough intelligence to type into a keyboard can fail at such a fundamental level in understanding science.
June 20th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
Mike, your defination of who is Christian isn’t quite as inclusive as you would say. And I think we’re going to have to have a discussion on that topic. Especially I’m curious as to where you stand on my bible.
June 23rd, 2006 at 10:42 am
Yeah, I try to stay away from fights about the apocryphal books, and how literally things should be interpreted. It’s important to decide what you believe is and isn’t up for interpretation, but like earth-origin stuff, it’s kind of a secondary belief the fundamental principle of being saved by grace.
I suppose some ultra-liberal “many paths to salvation” denominations get excluded by my definition, but that may or may not be a bad thing. Is there anyone else?
June 23rd, 2006 at 12:00 pm
The problem is that there are more than just Mormans who follow Non-trinitarian beliefs (you can check the wikipedia article for several more). This adds up to millions of individuals (including Unitarians and Jehova’s Witnesses) that are self professing Christians. I always find it quite strange how within Abrahamic Religions there is so much fighting when the real things that matter, the respect of others (which I believe to be the highest good), are ignored. I doubt that those denominations whould call themselves “ultra-liberal” and for denominations such as the Catholic Church, your denomination is the liberal one. (What? You don’t believe in 2 Maccabeus? Well…you’ll know the truth when you suffer in purgatory…)
So yeah, I do think it’s bigotry and is “a bad thing”. I think that there is still room to be saved by grace without the Trinity. But what do I know…a lowly heathen. Funny though…the Nicene Creed to me never explicitly expressed the Trinity…sort of one interpretation of it. (Oh Christine…we all can have a laugh at your Bible later…)
June 25th, 2006 at 8:26 am
You’re more than welcome to laugh at my bible, provided I get to laugh at your complete lack of understanding of the concept of purgatory.
June 26th, 2006 at 5:13 pm
Deal…I tend to forget details about poorly written fiction. We can all have a good laugh…it will be therapeutic.
June 27th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
That’s true, but you can tell they’re liberal because they point to almost everyone else and exclaim how intolerably stodgy we are. (”What, your church doesn’t support the gay pride parade? Do you enjoy being a group that promotes hatred in the community?”)
Regarding the trinity, as you say, it’s not really critical to salvation by grace. But as soon as you break the story down a bit, it makes sense to identify Father, Son, and Spirit as separate aspects of God.
As for purgatory, I’m not familiar with the scriptural justifications typically presented, but the whole thing comes across as kind of a rationalization. Rather than “saved” and “unsaved,” there’s this mysterious third category of “somewhat saved” or “saved but owing.”
Like, it makes it easier to justify a pattern of confessing every once in a while, and if you snuff it expectedly, you’ll only have a few weeks worth of a accumulated wrongdoing to pay off.
June 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
Mike! You’re making it difficult for me to keep the intensive discussion for a time when I don’t have an anti-catholic bigot participating.